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April 30, 2005

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» From the Front from Mudville Gazette
How many gods do you have? A question asked of Major K. by a "Terp" ( interpreter ). They have an interesting conversation. with each other.... [Read More]

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That is the question an Iraqi interpreter asked Major K at Stength and Honor . this shows the utter ignorance that Muslims and christians have of ach other. This particular Terp was the son of a Shia mother and a Sunni father. So, when asked which he [Read More]

Comments

JoeBruin88

I don't believe the God of Christianity is the same god of Islam. That is obvious from both the text of the Bible and the Koran.

Patrick

The way Muslims see it,they feel we Christians and Jews WERE on the right path worshipping Jehovah,but they improved on it and we sort of fell away from it.

They view Islam as a more refined product beyond Jewish and Christian worship.

Bill

Charles M. Doughty noted the same thing in the 1880s. Doughty traveled openly as a Christian. His Travels in Arabia Deserta is one of the books I recommend for those headed to Muslim countries. I also recomend Burton's translation of the Arabian Nights and his Pilgrimage.

Soldier's Dad

I am usually surprised with how many Christians don't know that the Old Testament and New Testament are actually part of Islam. Just as the old testament is part of Judaism. The Koran is the "New New Testament"

Jews,Muslims and Christians are all sons of Abraham. Somehow, I don't expect Moqtada AlSadr or Jerry Falwell to be saying that anytime soon.

thinker

Actually...I certainly do not believe the Koran is the New, New Testament. The life of Jesus was exemplary...Mohammed lived a life that is in my view very problematic to be a prophet and certainly not the most important prophet.

Chevy Rose

Without researching, just from memory, somewhere in the Bible someone said, "In my Father's house are many rooms.....". This could mean that there will be different religions in Heaven and God loves everyone who loves Him. IMHO, ofcorse.

Brian H

The term "polytheists" is used to describe most other religions; for many Muslims, Xians get lumped in there, too.

Justin

Good to know Major K. Thanks

Patrick

It goes without saying that a Christian(I am one as well) does not believe the Koran is a new testament.

My only point was the Muslims view themselves much as we Christians do,but without the Divinity of Christ and His work mixed into THEIR religious equation.

That's all. They view Jesus as a prophet only. I know Muslims personally who think highly of Jesus,but they don't believe He is both God and man as we do.

Some Soldier's Mom

The secret to world peace is discovering all those things we have in common and accepting all those things we don't.... and living side by side in all that knowledge.

Dennis

There is no similarity between the Muslim god and the Christian God. The most profound difference is the god of Islam asks you to send your sons to die for him. The true God sent His Son to die for you.
I haven't a clue why the Muslims would honor a man who said He was the only way to God. You approach God only through Jesus Christ and that was His clear claim. If this isn't true, Jesus is a false prophet and not worthy of anyone’s honor or respect.
Harry with all due respect this statement is just plain ignorant. " The Koran is the "New New Testament"
Jesus said it was finished, not to be on the lookout for part III.

devildog6771

Actually the true Muslims do believe in the same God as Christianity and Judiasm. They are all three descendants of Abraham. But if I am not mistaken, he had one illegitimate son Ishmael; and, one legitimate son, Isaac. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worshiped the same God and are descendent from these two sons. Islam comes from the descendants of Ishmael, judaism and Christianity. sect of Jews who believed in Christ, descended from Isaac. The three got along faily well until the Council of Trent, I think it was, where a great disagreement over the "Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost" discussions and edicts caused major disagreements. Please correct me if I have this wrong.

Kenneth

Dennis, you do indeed have it wrong. The council of Trent was in 1545, and dealt with clarifying the doctine of the Catholic church in response to Protestantism. It had nothing to do with Judaism or Islam.

Major K,

Many Muslims are taught incorrectly that Christians worship 3 gods. This is a distortion of the concept of the Holy Trinity, the Father Son & Holy Ghost. As a Catholic you should be able to clarify that issue for yout friend. Mohammed travelled and knew Christians and Jews and incorporated much of the Old & New Testament into the Koran, re-interpretted with Arabic names, and with changes in "plot" to his developing theology. Some non-muslim scholars have argued that Mohammed initially presented himself as the Jewish Messiah, but when he was reject by the Jews of Medina, he turned against them violently. And so it goes on to this day. Islam was born in warfare against Jews, Christians, & non-muslims. This has continued through the centuries with only brief times of peace.

Joe

There are big differences between Christians and other faiths....the biggest is they(Non-Christian)
do not know how to handle Jesus....this includes the Mormons. Jesus is either a good man or a prophet. Never God.

Bert

Denis, well said. I'm not the most eloquent of people, so I usually wait and let other people post what I believe. You just did.

Bert

devildog6771

Thankds Major K. I had saved a good write up on this very topic but couldn't find it so I was going from memory. But I had faith you would get me straight.

Dan

Personally, I don't believe in Gods. I believe in "The Benevolent Universe Premise."

As I understand it, Christian faiths condemn unbelievers to eternal damnation AFTER we die.

Islam commands Muslems to KILL infidels. This is a real and serious problem with that (fundamentalist) religion. Notice: All present military conflicts are the result of Islam's belief that they must kill infidels.

Thanks for the news!

---Dan

Dan VL

Jesus said (as recorded in John, Chapter 14, verse 6), "...I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. NO ONE can come to the Father (God) accept through Me." In the book of Acts, refering to Jesus in Chapter , verse 12 the Bible says, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we MUST be saved." Furthermore, Jesus claims to be God. He is even refered to in Revelation as The Alpha and the Omega, The Beginning and the End....another way to refer to God.

We need to respect and love our Muslim friends. But to gloss over what the Bible says about Jesus is to mislead them and deny them the truth of what we believe as Christians. All people must accept or reject Christ. We cannot pick and choose what it says in the Bible. We can accept it all, but we cannot accept part of it, because who is to say what we should leave out. If we read and accept what it says, nobody will find salvation, or be united with our Creator without Jesus and His sacrificial life, death, and ressurection.

Do we worship the same God? I don't think so. My God sent Jesus to die for me and all people so I could know, love and be loved by our Father in Heaven. Our Muslim friends need to know a loving Father God who would sacrifice for them. The god they know is capricious and offers no means of really knowing salvation. They can only hope for it without guarantees. Our Good says that if we call on the name of Christ we WILL be saved. May all Muslims know this God and His true love for them.

Bill

Dan VL writes:
Do we worship the same God? I don't think so. My God sent Jesus to die for me and all people so I could know, love and be loved by our Father in Heaven. Our Muslim friends need to know a loving Father God who would sacrifice for them. The god they know is capricious and offers no means of really knowing salvation.

Dan VL, the fact that Muslims know God imperfectly in your eyes doesn't mean that they worship another God.

Reading the Bible and Koran as literature and not as revealed Scripture:
The God of the Old Testament is simply an old fashioned Jewish father, the God of the New Testament is a Hellenistic Jew. The God of the Koran is an old fashioned Arab father and is closer to the God of the Old Testament that to the God of the New Testament. Does all this mean that Jews and Christians worship different gods?

Dan VL

Bill writes: ".....the fact that Muslims know God imperfectly in your eyes doesn't mean that they worship another God."

It is a good point and I understand what you are saying. Paul addressed the Athenians similarly as recorded in Acts where he says something to the effect that he would show them the God they worshiped but didn't really know.

But here is where I stumble. Regarding the Bible and the Koran as revelation..... Muslims regard the Koran as the supreme revelation of God. Yet, it does not point to Christ as Savior of all mankind, sent from the Father, God in the flesh, Emmanuel (God with us). The divinity of Christ is not accepted. To a Muslim, Jesus is only a great prophet as indicated in what they consider to be ultimate revelation. Therefore, what they hold in the highest esteem, the Koran, is in fact antichrist. It must be revelation from another. That "other" cannot be the Father of our Lord.

But I suppose you might say (if you regard the Bible as true revelation, not just literature), they (Muslims) have accepted a lie in the Koran. Perhaps not the father of the lie, but the lie itself. They are bound in slavery to the lie and will not be free of it until they accept the sacrifice and forgiveness which God gives through Christ.

As to the question of Jews and Christians worshipping different Gods.... No. We worship the SAME God. Most Jews however, don't accept God's Messiah, Jesus. (Many do.) Most don't accept the full revelation of their God. But the Lord Jesus is a Jew. Furthermore, Jesus says "salvation comes from the Jews." So, Chritians worship the Jewish God. I worship the God of Israel and His Messiah. In fact, the Bible says I (a gentile) have been "grafted in" to the family. In a sense I am now a "Jew" in my heart. My heart has been "circumcised."

observer

Hmm...
Good Job Major K. Keep talking to them. Put a human face on the "infidel" tag. As for the rest of the gobbledy gook above, no wonder god's name is used to commit heinous acts of treachery by mere fallible humans and there fallible theologies. Grow up and embrace our differences with RESPECT. I don't "do" religion, but I would never waste my breath on trying to convince someone there religion was incorrect. There is much beauty in faith, there is none in doubt. So have faith that we all worship with the same intent, to live a good life.

Atlanta Lawyer

Christians and Muslims do worship the same God, the God of Abraham, but they obviously have very diffenent conceptions of that God.

There is no doubt that Christianity is one of the foundations of Islam. Many Christian scholars view Islam as being essentially a heretic variant of Christianity.

As a heretical variant of Christianity that denies the divinity of Jesus, Islam would not be not unique. There were several such heretical strains of Christianity in the early days of the Church, all of which culminated in the Council of Nicea in 323 AD, where the concept of the trinity was first articulated. Islam just came later and was able to successfully establish itself.

Fyodor Garibaldi

The concept of the Holy Trinity has been a stumbling block to many, even Christians. Words are almost always a positive thing. Keep up the good work Major. I hope you can get to Mass for the Feast of the Ascension tomorrow.

Dan VL

Observer,

I apologize if I said anything disrepectful towards anyone, or if my tone sounded disrespectful. Anything I state I hope and try to state in respectful terms. If you are suggesting that I, or anyone that holds concrete views on theological matters, should "Grow up" I'll try not to take that as disrespect from somebody like yourself who I assume could even tolerate somebody of my narrow persuasion.

I will also respectfully disagree with your statement that "There is much beauty in faith." Bad theology can result in all sorts of ugly things such as oppression and general injustice towards women. It can lead to airplanes crashing into buildings of innocent people. We don't all "worship with the same intent".

That said, I know that the vast majority of Muslims want to live quiet, decent lives like most people everywhere.

But in this world if there is any contingent set upon using ugly means born of faith to convince people that they should worship the "correct" way, it would be the likes of the highly faithFULL Taliban types who are killing Christians in places like Indonesia. There is nothing beautiful about it.

But I will agree with you about one thing. Major K is doing a fantastic job. And he is probably scratching his head, wondering why he opened the floodgates for Bible thumpers like myself to use his forum. I'll end it here and say thank you. God bless you, too, my friend, "Observer".

Stefan/Germany

How interesting the thoughts and how much mix.

At first it give not the muslims or the christians. If you accept this you start to understand.

At first to me. I was born as catholic and changed to the mormons. Now I describe the differences.

The muslims belief that Mohammed was the highest and the last prophet. He make the roof from all religions. The highest book which include all what you need is the Quran. It´s good to learn from the bible (new and old testament) but you need it not. Jesus was a prophet. Not more, not less. One prophet after other prophets, but the last one and the importanst is Mohammed, which ride on a white horse from the tempel in Jerusalem to heaven. All arab people come from the family from Abraham. Abraham accepted to give his only and first son to god. He accepted to offer him.

Now give it two kinds of muslim. One say he accepted it, but Allah take him not. It´s not allowed to kill someone. And the other side say. He was ready to give his first son to god and we all have to do it. In the war between Iran and Irak was it a honor to give the first son the army as offering. God can decide take he this son or not. And near every muslim didn´t accept silly "offerings". Al Quaida members included. They went wrong and think it´s in Allahs interest to do it. (Like the crusadors in the past from Europe)

Next one is the catholic way. The Holy Trinity is founded in the time after Jesus. Catholic say Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost is one person in three appearance. That say God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost is the same person. (If someone pray to Jesus than think a muslim he didn´t accept the onlyone - God. Or in arabic language Allah. The christians in the arabic world say all Allah. It is the same and it is the same God. Muslim translate not holy thinks. If you study the Quran, you study it in arabic language.)

Now to the Mormons. The mormons belief everyone can be a god. It´s near impossible, but possible. God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are three persons. Everyone is a god. And they work like one person, because it give just one truth. The mormons pray just to god in the name of Jesus like the bible say. The first commandment say we have to pray to one god. The opposide is it give more as one god. Jesus is the example for us how to live on the earth. He show us how we can come to god and what we have to do to be a god. And he show it is possible to change into a god - for everybody. The Holy Ghost is the guide which we can feel if we are worthy. It´s the "phone call" to god.

Maybe the muslim heard from a mormon that it give more as one god. But he know not it give the highest which has only the name god. And the mormons pray just to him.

A other person wrote the bible is finished. Sorry no. The bible is one book made from many books. The words at the end (revelation) from the bible are just for the last book. Not for the bible. The last part from the bible is not in the real time. The books start with the largest book (The acts of the Apostels) and finish with the smalest book (John). It´s not a problem to write new books if it give new prophets. The muslim went not a wrong way if Mohamed is a prophet.

And the last. It give more as one room in the heaven, like the bible desribe ,and it give a place for everyone which do the best what he can do and what he can understand. We meet us in the future. The muslims, the jewish, the christians, the buddhist, the hindu and all other religions with all leaders if we try to go the way to god and if we have peace in the heart. Not the peace from the world. The peace from God.

On earth we have to fight for peace and right, like the situation in Iray, in heaven never!

Hopefully see you all in the paradiese for peacefull people.

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